In 2013 when Richard Thompson was opening act on the bill for Bob Dylan’s ‘Americanarama’ Tour Dylan himself sangThompson’s song ‘1952 Vincent Black Lightning’ onstage in Clarkston Michigan. Thompson’s reaction at the time was typical understatement of his own talents: “Well, that’s fantastic. I’ve covered 75 of his; he’s covered one of mine.” I think that that’s the right ratio!”. In reality, Richard Thompson has been highly revered by music fans and critics going right back to the ’70’s when he featured in ‘Top Guitarist’ polls alongside Clapton and Hendrix. His embracing of Dylan’s electrified-folk style as guitarist/writer for Fairport Convention was a game-changer for folk music in the UK. I particularly enjoyed hearing Richard’s own views on his songwriting and guitar playing when I interviewed him before his show in Bonn on Wednesday.

You’re on quite a lengthy tour at the moment Richard, Do you remember playing in Bonn in the past?  Or Cologne?

I’ve played Cologne before, but a long time ago.  I remember visiting the cathedral and the Roman Museum.  So I was definitely here for some musical purpose.

Bonn also has some history – especially Beethoven.

I know.  Tomorrow morning I might be able to have a visit, actually. I might see if I can nip over to his birthplace then.  I’m a bit of a fan you know!   I think of it as good versus evil.  over in the States we have Donald Trump, and over here you have ‘Ode to Joy’!.

I go for the Ode to Joy myself. What should we expect this evening from you?  You’ve got so many songs over so many years.

(laughs) Phenomenal brilliance!  But that will be Zara’s (his wife’s) contribution, not mine!   What can you expect?  Well, I try  to cover everything.  Back to Fairport, maybe.  60’s, definitely 70’s definitely ‘80’s, 90’s, up to stuff that’s unrecorded.  Stuff off of the last record.  We’ve still got 15,000 copies in the warehouse so we want to shift those.

With 30+ studio albums,  how do you even start pencilling up a set list?

Well, I do think – some poor tosser’s been there since the 60s.  He’s been following closely or at a distance since the 60s.  So I owe these people.  And there’s also stuff I enjoy still playing.  Stuff maybe I want to play that people might not be so familiar with.  And then I think, well, the various decades…  So, in the end I just try and cover everything.  In the end it’s a balance. What I think would be a good set, and then a slight nod to what the audience would like to hear.

There must be songs that your audience want, expect even, to hear.  I’m thinking of, like Ralph McTell, not playing Streets of London.

Well, you know, a song like that…it’s public property.  It doesn’t belong to Ralph anymore.

What are your own ‘Streets’?  The songs that people expect to hear?

I’ve got songs like ‘Vincent’ (1952 Vincent Black Lightning).  Probably ‘Bees Wing’, ‘Dimming of the Day’.  I’ll do some, but not all of those.

Will you do Bee’s Wing tonight?

I might not.

You might not?

No.  Well, you know, I hesitate to do a song with that many verses.  Even though German audiences speak brilliant English,  I still hesitate a bit because it’s just a long song so I hesitate with it.  I wouldn’t say I will not do it on the circuit here because I probably will at some point.  I might do it tonight.  We’ll see how it goes.

What led you to become a musician?

I’m not very good at anything else (laughs)

Your dad played guitar, I remember reading.

Yeah, not very well.

I think there were two things that got me started.  I mean, there was the guitar culture of when I was growing up.  My big sister had all the rock and roll records.  Tommy Steele had a guitar.  The guy playing with Elvis had a guitar.  So guitars were very hip.  I think Hank Marvin was a massive influence on most people.  So a guitar arrived in the house when I was about 10.  My dad thought he was going to play it.  My sister thought she was going to play it – and I just grabbed it and that was it.  Took it to my room, and it was never seen again.

You had a guitar, and you became not a Rockstar but a folk rockstar?  You certainly didn’t seem interested in Blues music, at a time when other people like Clapton and Hendrix were embracing the ‘new’ music they’d discovered.  I can hear Blues influences in other folk musicians styles but never in yours.

If you mean people like Bert Jansch? or something where there’s a kind of bluesy overtone?  Or John Martin, who was kind of very bluesy, or Martin Carthy, who was never bluesy.

Well, I think the long answer is that when ‘Big Pink’ came out by The Band, we thought “This is wonderful, pure synthesis of American music styles.  It’s all in there, gospel, blues, country, everything, jazz…  It’s all in there, and they’re writing these great songs, and it’s just a wonderful blend”.  It had nothing to do with psychedelia or San Francisco.  It’s this whole pure thing, and we thought “That’s fantastic.  We should be doing something that’s an equivalent in the UK”, and what that really is, is to go back to traditional music and then create a new kind of music out of traditional music and contemporary music. When I say ‘create’, I mean we have to build a bridge here, because it doesn’t exist.  But if there’d been a pure folk tradition that didn’t get wiped out by the introduction of the phonograph; or imported music, you’d have had people doing this anyway.  It would have just happened.

Were you aware of the fact that you were being groundbreaking at that time?

Yeah, absolutely, totally, yeah.  And I think we also looked around us and we thought, you know, glam rock, metal was around at the time, prog rock – and we thought this (what we were doing) is actually far more radical. And far more artistically rewarding as well.  Everything else is actually a bit pretentious, really, to tell the truth.

And regarding Blues music, I grew up going to see Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck and all those guys, and I thought it’s a crowded field.  Even in Muswell Hill, you had your local, your Jeff Crivet, your local blues guitarist.  I just thought, you know, there’s too many of them.  There’s too many of these people.  I could be as good as them, and if I was as good as them?

You got into the guitarist hit parades poll-wise in the 1970’s, and as an avid NME reader back in the day I would ask myself what’s this guy Richard Thompson doing here alongside Richie Blackmore and Jimmy Page?  What made you stand out?

It’s just the style difference.  They’re all blues-based or rock-and-roll-based guitar players, and what we did with Fairport was always a bit on the side.  It was always a cult, really.  And it remained that way. It still remains that way.

Dylan playing a Fender Strat, going electric at Newport, must have been an inspiration to you?  Because that was about the time you were playing guitar, really starting to find a sound of your own…

Yeah, I was kind of a Gibson guy at first actually.   Newport was a moment for sure.  You know, it’s such a pivotal moment.  The importance of that and the importance of the Byrds and others doing electric versions of Dylan songs

people doing electric versions of Dylan songs, it changes the pop music landscape.  It means that you can now write serious songs and they can still be hits. It’s not all about sappy teenage love songs anymore.  You can write political songs, you can write love songs with depth, you can write sociologically aware songs, all in popular music.

And without that moment of Dylan in 1965 you wouldn’t have… Well, the range is ridiculous.  You might not even have Rap.  It might go that far.

Without that, would we have had Richard Thompson playing electric?

Maybe not.  I might have stayed as a folkie, actually.  Because before Dylan changed things, that was where the political songwriting was.  That was where the serious songwriting was. (muses) I might have stayed there. Leonard Cohen might have stayed there.  Joni Mitchell might have stayed there. There were some writers as good as Dylan but his importance cannot be understated.

Coming back to the guitar playing, you use a lot of tunings, don’t you?

With Acoustic guitars, yes.

Lots of drop Ds…

(Laughs) I’m in drop D all the time.  Except when I’m in C/G Modal, DADGAD or something.  Being mostly a solo performer on an acoustic guitar, you’re trying to make it sound bigger.  To make it a more orchestral sound, so, it’s advantageous to have things that ring over.  If drone strings ring over, bass strings ring over, that’s a good thing.  If your top strings ring over, as in DADGAD that’s a good thing.  If you can get a harp-like sound on the guitar, that’s a good thing.

It’s all just things to expand the sound.  And so people say, wow! how does he do that?  As opposed to just strumming in C, G, and D.

As you’ve indicated already, you weren’t interested in being another Clapton or Jeff Beck.  So who were your guitar heroes?

Well, when I was a kid, I think Hank Marvin cannot be understated as an influence, on everybody. Very important.  Probably Joe Brown.  And then people on records:  like James Burton (Elvis Presley’s guitarist).  And then some of the jazz players, like Johnny Smith.  Session guys like Hank Garland.  People are unaware, you know, of actually the really great guitar players.  They’re the guys who don’t get their names on the records.

That’s an eclectic list.  Did you ever think of abandoning the folk side completely?  I read somewhere that you were at school with Hugh Cornwell.  Did you ever think about becoming a punk?

Becoming a strangler?

Becoming a strangler even, but just becoming a punk.

I think, I didn’t have the gloves, I would have left fingerprints.  So ‘No!’.

Because you wanted to be cutting edge a bit?

Reviving traditional music and forming that contemporary bridge;  for me, that was way more radical than punk.  But I liked punk because I thought it was bringing the excitement back that you heard on something like The Sun Sessions, The sessions from Elvis.  There was a kind of rawness about it and I thought, okay, this is good, this is a good thing.  As opposed to the kind of blanded-out prog rock or whatever that was happening at the time.

You were working with Linda Thompson for quite a while as Man and Wife and that must have been a strain, having a relationship and being on the road.

It was, yeah.  It’s not easy because who do you have a moan to?  I mean, you know, musical relationships.  Look at The Beatles or something.  I mean, there’s only like ten years.  It wasn’t really that long.  So sustaining musical relationships is difficult, And if it’s your personal relationship as well, it’s quite tough.  And then, having kids on top of that, it’s just involved.

That’s a good point, that you’re combining two relationships – musical and personal.

But Zara and I have a wonderful time on the road, don’t we?  (his wife and guest vocalist this evening, is in the room, and concurs, albeit with a laugh!)

Maybe I should ask that separately.

You’ve got Teddy and Camilla, two of your children from Linda, and they’re both musicians.

And I think one of your daughters has got a son who’s also a musician. How do you feel about that?

Teddy, Camilla and my grandson, Zak, are all excellent, excellent musicians. I’m very proud of them all.  I told them to become accountants or lawyers or dentists, but they didn’t listen.  It’s the thing, if you’ve got to do it, you’ve got to do it.

I said to my other daughter, “Whatever you do, don’t marry a musician”, what does she do?  Marries a musician. 

Why do you think there are so many musical people in your family?

I think it’s a combination of a certain genetic background, but also through  seeing it as a normality: Oh, that’s Dad’s day job.  You’re going on the road for two weeks.  That’s just what he does.  That just seems normal.  Music around the house, that sort of stuff.  It’s just normality.  As opposed to, oh, Dad’s working or whatever.  Dad’s a dentist or a carpet salesman.

Your children would have been dentists and carpet salesmen if you hadn’t been a musician then?

(laughs) I can dream, but it’s not going to happen.

Have you had them on tour, playing concerts with you?

Sometimes, yeah.  It’s great, whenever possible.  Teddy lives in Brooklyn, so sometimes I’ll sit in with him or he’ll sit in with me in New York or something.  Kammy’s in London.  Sometimes her and her husband will play together.  Always love them, best thing.

And your own wife is on this tour now.  Why did you decide to tour together?  Is that so that you got to see each other more?

That’s one reason.  We’ve got a studio down in the basement, so I started to get Zara to sing on a few home demos.  She’s been singing since the 80s with the Boom Town Rats, David Essex and whatnot, and then we just started to do stuff together, and we liked it.

With due respect, you’re not getting any younger (Richard is 76) how do you find touring?

Well, Going on the road, you try to make it as comfortable as possible, but sometimes it’s tough. We just went from London to Portugal.  Drove for two hours to the festival.  Drove two hours back to London.  And then London to Hamburg.  It was kind of nuts, but sometimes you’ve just got to do it.

This is when most husbands come home and are asked “What sort of a day did you have, honey?” And you say, “Oh you don’t want to know!” except in your case you both DO know!

So we say “We should go for a holiday – so let’s go home, let’s just have a rest”.

Are there any songs of yours that you are particularly proud of?

Well, quite a lot of them, but the list varies. I’ll change my opinion. I think I’ve got about 100 good songs, actually out of 400.  So that’s not such a staggeringly high strike rate.

25% seems pretty good to me

But you think of Irving Berlin or something.  How many Irving Berlin songs actually lasted?  It’s quite a lot – well over 50.  People like Rodgers and Hart who I think are extraordinarily wonderful. They were writing for shows.  16 songs per musical. They might do one or two musicals a year, and of those, you might remember only ‘Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered’, and ‘My Funny Valentine’ from that show.  And the other 14 songs…

So we do our best, and we write a few duffers from time to time.  But I think every song is a bit of an experiment, and sometimes the experiment fails.  Sometimes it’s good.  Sometimes you think you’ve written the greatest song in the world, and you come back a year later and you’ve changed your mind. 

Sometimes you write what you think is a really good song – but nobody gets it. It turns out to be a song that will not jump from here to there.  So you finally end up thinking, OK, I’ll sing it to myself in the bath.  Maybe the song was too personal.  It has to communicate with others – and that’s a thing you never really know until you actually get up and sing it.  And see at the end if anybody claps.

Do you listen to your music after it’s done?  Do you go back to it or do you just say, I’ve recorded this and this song is done, forget it and move on?

I go back and review sometimes.  And sometimes I go back and think, this song is better than I thought.  And also, sometimes an audience member might shout out for a song and I’m thinking, oh, I totally forgot about that song.  So I do forget.  And if I was more of a man, or more of a musician, I would keep more in my head at a time so I could say, ‘OK, I’m going out on tour with 75 songs in my head as opposed to 30.  So I’ll change the set all the time.  But I’m slightly more reined in than that.  And also, I like the idea that you keep a similar set, not the same set, but a similar set.  And then you can dig into those songs, and dig in and dig in and dig in – and get really good at them.

And do they change radically?  Have you had songs that you did 20 years ago and now you think, I wish that was a louder song, a faster song, and you go back and change it?

Yeah.

Can you do that?  Make a ballad like ‘Dimming of the Day’ for example more of a rocksong?

I think that song’s well-known – too well known, and I wouldn’t change it, but there are other songs which are less well-known that I would change.  You change the lyrics, you change the tempo, fine.  Also, some songs.  You perform stuff from 50 years ago sometimes and you think ‘well this is a bit naive, so I’m going to tweak this song a little bit so that it means something to me now’.  And it will be a better piece if it works.

What do you think of the current music scene?

Which music scene?

I guess I’m talking about Taylor Swift and the things that are the big sellers these days.  The music scene that’s selling downloads.

I lost interest a long time ago.  And I don’t really like stadium-sized music.  Beyonce, Taylor Swift.  And there’s been a bit of an expose on YouTube lately – they’re all miming.

You go to a Taylor Swift show, basically because you want to hear her sing, and what you get is her dancing in the lights, and the show and everything.  But she’s miming.  And Beyonce’s miming.

Actually, they would argue that they’re dancing and can’t also sing as well

Well, don’t dance!

But Kate Bush managed that, and she had a very simple head microphone.

Well, she managed that, and in her original shows in the late 70s, almost her only tour, the first tour she did, they announced in the programme that the last song, which I think was  ‘England My Lionheart, Kate would be miming to this song, and she actually felt it necessary to announce it in the programme.  She sang everything else live, but because of the strenuousness of that particular song, they admitted it in advance.

Maybe with Taylor Swift, they should do it alternately and say Taylor Swift will be singing  one song live?

What keeps you touring and recording after so many years?

I need the money.  Two ex-wives… But also, I enjoy it.  I mean, for me, the greatest thing that I do is to play in front of an audience.  That’s the most fun.  Recording’s fun, writing music’s fun, but ultimately, playing to people – it’s the big payoff.  You get that feeling that people like what you do, they get the songs…  It’s fantastic.  Nothing touches it.  There’s nothing that touches it.  And if you’re Beyoncé miming?  Is she ever going to feel that?