This week sees two events of particular interest to Rory Gallagher fans in Bonn: A concert on Tuesday (15 Oct) by Band of Friends including ex-Gallagher band members bassist Gerry MacAvoy and drummer Brendan O’Neill. Also, an auction at Bonhams in London to sell off much of the gear belonging to Rory which has been looked after by his brother Donal since the guitarist’s tragic death after liver transplant complications in 1995. Centre of the auction will undoubtedly be Rory’s iconic Fender Stratocaster from 1961 bought by Rory as a young teenager on a monthly payment plan and played constantly by him throughout his career. There was a short period when he was unable to play the guitar after it was stolen. Even then, it was so famous that the thieves couldn’t sell it and it was literally ‘ditched’ by them. Now it’s expected to top the million pounds mark at auction. What do his former band-mates, who saw and used this gear on a daily basis think of all this?
Read on.
GERRY MACAVOY: Gallagher’s bass player 1970-1991
3Songs: You’ve had Marcus Scherpenzeel on guitar, more recently Paul Rose and Jim Kirkpatrick . Now you’ve got Davy (Knowles). Why have there been so many guitar changes in Band of Friends?
GM: What I thought. At the beginning of this year, because so many things have happened. We lost Ted, so, I just felt like I wanted to play with as many people as possible. I’m not getting any younger: guitar players, sax players, keyboard players but still do the Rory stuff as well as doing our own stuff.
3Songs: So you are still keen to play your own new material in addition to the Rory songs?
GM: Yeah. we’re doing our own songs as well. We have an album that’s not released yet, but we bring it on the road (‘Roll with the Punches’ 2023) that features Davey.
3Songs: Last time here you had dual guitarists in Paul and Jim. It gave the songs a fresh edge I thought.
GM: Yes. Part of the idea for that was that, when we made the albums back in the day with Rory, he would play guitar and do live vocals and then, afterwards he’d maybe put on a rhythm guitar or an extra lead guitar track, so to have the two guys on it wasn’t so strange. And they (Paul and Jim) worked out the parts really well between them.
3Songs: So, fresh faces and approaches help to keep you motivated after all these years?
GM: Well, we did a bunch of shows, an Irish tour in fact only a couple of months ago. Belfast, Dublin and Galway. We did the show in Dublin. This was with Jim and Paul. It was great. A sold-out show. But half the front of the audience was under twenty five. Which I find so encouraging. Young guys and girls coming to see the show, you know… so encouraging.
3Songs: What do you think attracts them to what is very much a ‘70’s rock sound?
GM: It could be the influence of their fathers, the grandfathers even… (laughs)
3Songs: As we speak, pretty much the entire guitar and equipment collection that Rory owned is sitting in an auction room in London (Bonhams) waiting for bidding to start. It’s all also a big part of your life that’s under the hammer. What are your thoughts on this week’s auction?
GM: I think Donal (Gallagher, brother of Rory) has got every right to create the auction. After all, he’s been storing the equipment and keeping the light going for Rory since 1995. It’s a long time.
3Songs: The Centre-piece of the Auction is undoubtedly Rory’s 1961 weather-beaten Stratocaster. A lot of people are betting on Joe Bonamassa wanting it. He has a Rory commemorative Tour coming up next year after all. It would be a nice addition to the stage equipment?
GM: I was over in Cork recently where we did a press reception for some shows coming up with Joe, and he agrees too, anyway he says he’s not going to buy it. He’s a massive guitar collector but he says the same thing, he wants the guitar to remain in Ireland. No matter what. It’s iconic. It’s the pride of Ireland. It’s all about that you know. I did a fund-raising show in Cork with Sheena Crowley, the daughter of Michael the shop owner where Rory bought the guitar and it was great. Cork City Hall was sold out and a lot of young Cork musicians came along. I know Sheena has worked hard to get some money together, but unless someone steps in, the Irish Government perhaps…
3Songs: How do you personally feel about the monetary value being put on these things? You must have spent almost as much time with Rory’s Strat as he did?
GM: I did yes. I used to sit and play with it, and tune it up sometimes you know…
3Songs: Looking through the online Bonhams Catalogue I saw a lot of obviously very used equipment with hefty starting bid prices. A tattered Vox foot-pedal from the 1970’s for several hundred pounds for example. These were the sort of things that were left lying around on the floor. You probably just kicked them around occasionally and now they’re worth a fortune. At the time they were just tools of your and Rory’s trade.
GM: Exactly yeah. We (the band) were just talking about this earlier. (takes a deep breath) It’s quite amazing. Simply because the name attached to it is Rory Gallagher. I wouldn’t have expected this. But at the same time I can understand it and also why Donal is doing this. He’s paying for the storage, and the insurance for all that gear. I mean, the Stratocaster, which is the main instrument, I believe that’s up for around a million pounds and it will go past that.
But I’d hate the fact that some rich person buys it and and never uses it. It should go back to Ireland. It could be a museum. Something the Government could put up. That’s what Sheena Crowley’s trying to do. Put up this little museum in Cork. Perhaps it will be out of her reach, but let’s see what happens.
3Songs: But let’s say I was Donal, and I asked you if you would like something from the Auction? Not including the Strat…
GM: No, no, the Stratocaster!!! (Laughs)
3Songs: The Vox pedal maybe?
GM: Well, you know, it’s one of those things. I was involved in that for twenty years of my life with Rory. So I know a lot of the stuff and for me, it’s non-consequential to me. I was there. With the Stratocaster, with the pedals, you know. Yes, they’re tools. And the whole idea of putting them up for auction? They’ve got to go to the right people. To guitar players. People who will use them as instruments, not stick them under the bed and never use them.
3Songs: On a side-note, you played the same bass for pretty much your entire career with Rory. That could also be worth something. Have you thought about that?
GM: Yes, I’m sending it down to Bonhams tomorrow (laughs) Only joking!
3Songs: Good you said that before Joe made you an offer. Of course, you have Rory’s greatest gift of all that you share every night, his songs.
GM: We do mix in new material with the Rory material which keeps things on an even keel you know, and that’s nice. It’s just the enjoyment of playing that keeps me motivated. Playing with these guys ( waves his hand towards Brendan O’Neill and Davey Knowles). Playing with Jim and Paul and with so many great musicians. It’s still the enjoyment. If that enjoyment wasn’t there we wouldn’t do it.
3Songs: In my brief notes for this interview, I wrote to ask “When will you stop?” which sounds a bit abrupt, as if you should have a retirement date…
GM: Yes, from tomorrow!
3Songs: And after that it’s a hobby? Thanks Gerry.
GM: Thanks John
BRENDAN O’NEILL: Gallagher’s drummer 1981 – 1991
3Songs: Brendan. Where do you fit in chronologically with Rory’s Band?
It was after Ted (McKenna). I joined Rory in 1981 and stayed until 1991 when Gerry and I left at the same time to reform Nine Below Zero with Mark Feltham. Then, a long time later, Gerry left Nine Below Zero to form Band of Friends and I left not so long after that but didn’t join Gerry in NBZ initially. I did a lot of things with various people and then, when Ted died, Gerry asked me to do some shows and now, they’re stuck with me!
3songs: Did you think twice about coming back to these songs and your past?
BO: Well initially it wasn’t a permanent thing because Ted had other commitments. He was doing shows with Michael Schenker so he had a bit of a conflict of interest, and obviously it was great to be doing that again, so I deputized for a few shows and ‘grew into it’ sort of thing. I was doing various other things too, working with Slim Chance and Mud Morganfield.
3songs: Did you ever think of retirement?
BO: No! (laughs)
3songs: I’m thinking of another Irish hero of mine Brian Downey of Thin Lizzy. He still plays, but remains in Ireland.
BO: I only met Brian once, he’s a lovely human being. A gentleman in fact. We’ve all been in this for far too long. It’s in our DNA now.
3songs: What are your memories of playing in the Rory Gallagher Band?
BO: It’s hard to pinpoint one thing. It was just a roller-coaster really. The whole thing. Because nothing was set in stone. The set-list wasn’t set in stone. The length of the set itself wasn’t set in stone. Even though the songs were songs we’d recorded it was very much an improvised situation, and they were never played the same twice so you had to be on your toes. He (Rory) would add bits to it. Once I remember we played ‘La Bamba’ out of the blue. It really was a roller-coaster.
3songs: I was asking Gerry about the upcoming Bonhams Auction. These are also physical items from those days with Rory…
BO: I was talking to an Irish journalist about this recently and said that if his guitar leaves Ireland it will be a kind of amputation. It’s synonymous with Rory and where he grew up. From Crowley’s Music shop.
3songs: If I could offer you one of these items at the auction, what would it be?
BO: I’m not a great one for mementos. I don’t have any from the musicians I’ve played with. I like records, and I loved the music and watching Rory play, and was fortunate in being around him for that time you know, and those memories are enough for me. I don’t need the physical things.
3songs: Thank you Brendan
DAVEY KNOWLES: Current Band of Friends guitarist
3songs: Davey, You’re the man in the famous checked shirt taking the place of a legend, and you have your own Fender Stratocaster, but would you love to play THE Rory Strat?
DK: Oh, I would love to, yes! A dream come true, and an honour.
3songs: Your main guitar seems to be a Fender Telecaster?
DK: Yes, that’s my main guitar. But just playing a Strat? Yes and no… For me, Rory was such a unique guy that trying to copy him add-infinitum would not work. It would be a disservice I think.
3songs: How do you approach taking Rory’s part and solos on? Do you learn them all in deta? The fans all know the solos and expect them to a great extent…
DK: Oh, well I grew up idolizing Rory. I grew up hearing Gerry and Brendan and Rory’s playing became such a massive influence on my own style which gives me the fabric of it – and then you go out there and do your little best!
3songs: Did you get to see Rory live?
DK: No I never got the chance. I started playing guitar when I was about eleven and I started buying all these guitar magazines, and Rory was featured in all of those. I guess I got to about thirteen when I saw a VHS tape copy of the Irish Tour documentary at HMV and thought “Right, I’m gonna do it!” I spent my pocket money and then – that opening scene where he goes from walking along the beach to playing ‘Walking on Hot Coals’? That was it for me!
3songs: Thanks Davey
FOOTNOTE: Rory’s Strat was finally sold for 700,000 GBP to Live Nation Gaiety Ltd with plans to donate it to the National Museum of Ireland, which I’m sure will please both Gerry and Brendan who wanted it to stay in Ireland. The sale total for all lots was 2.3 million GBP.